Transcript

VOX POP BEGINS

To me, debt is something that is owed by a person or an entity to another.

I think in a very broad sense to me, debt means when I owe someone something, whether it be a favor or like, you know, just not even just financial, but like, oh, this person picked up this at this time. So therefore, I need to repay that debt.

Really don't think there's such a thing as good debt at all.

VOX POP ENDS

INTRODUCTION BEGINS

In Blood Debts, we tell the stories of choices and sacrifices to pay back what is owed and pay forward something of value.

I’m your host, Leezel Tanglao.

On this podcast, we talk about one of the few through lines in people’s lives - debt.

You’ll hear stories from the Filipino diaspora around how debt has impacted all aspects of life from those in the medical field, public service sector to creative arts.

As a journalist, I’ve spent more than a decade reporting on the financial aspects of debt in diverse communities.

But many carry debts beyond money.

My relationship to debt or to maybe I mean, psychologically, it definitely it it gives me anxiety. I constantly talk and it's funny because it's in my control in many ways. Right. So I choose to take on debt. I choose to apply for credit cards. I choose to buy the things I want. So it's based on my own decision.

Yet when I see a credit card balance, it just causes me anxiety.

In this episode, we talked Anna Marie Cruz, an economic development leader, business consultant and founder of Entrepinayship a network that seeks to uplift Filipina founders, creatives and visionaries through community, connections, and resources at all stages of the entrepreneurial journey.

We talk about good and bad debt and utang ng la loob. We also discuss debt from strangers who showed you kindness in ways you can never pay back?

INTRODUCTION ENDS

I'm Anna Marie Cruz, I'm an entrepreneurship ecosystem builder based in Southern California, 45 minutes outside of L.A. and I am originally from the Philippines and I am really focusing a lot of my time right now during the pandemic on different resources for entrepreneurs, women entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs of color and the disparities that we're seeing take place.

It's been a actually a really difficult journey. I've made a lot of bad decisions, both around consumer debt and during the last financial crisis, taking on large amounts of debt from real estate and from more recently from student loans. And personally, I didn't I think I while I knew how to budget and how to what I thought I knew about managing debt. Looking back, there were just a lot of mistakes that I made. I think, one, categorizing debt as good versus bad debt instead of framing my experience and my goals and in the context of personal freedom and financial independence, I think it kind of put me in in a place where I was accumulating debt and and actually wanting that because I thought it was good.

Certainly financial literacy has something to do with it. I think it goes deeper than that. I think it's really rooted in assimilation and again, defining our goals and our dreams based on status symbols, and I mean, I even said upward social mobility, that that was top of mind for me if I could achieve this. Next thing on my list, homeownership.

Whatever, whatever that looks like, taking on debt so I can achieve this next thing on my list rather than if if I look at my grandparents, for example, living in the Philippines, not being able to take on any institutional debt, living day to day, I think the juxtaposition is there doing that.

But they're living in poverty, yet they didn't have anything over their head as debt. And if I were to reframe that experience, it's their living day to day and freedom.

So to me, looking back and looking at it and I think maybe even in the context of what's happening today in the revolution, freedom from the system, freedom from freedom and independence from a system that keeps us bound to debt or the accumulation of things and accumulation of status or checking off the next box rather than, I guess. Being called to what our passions are and how can we achieve that and in a place of abundance. Not having to take on debt so I can achieve this status.

It is the ways that we are raised and socialized in that no mindset like, no, you can't do that, like, no, do not do not go out and do not go out and do not play with your friends.

Do not go outside. It's you know what I mean. It's very subtle and constant, but it is constantly I mean it sends us the message of no, you can't do it.

 So it’s a choice of what kind of mindset you're letting go and what you are adapting to.

And if it's if it's uncomfortable, it's because we have been taught.

I mean, I always talk about the poverty mindset, and that's one of the reasons why I think it is also important to talk about money and have these uncomfortable situations or conversations, because we're we're much more used to talking about life from a place of scarcity.

Rather than a place of abundance. Right, collectively, absolutely, and I think it's up to us to decide how we apply that to our personal individual lives.

LEEZEL TANGLAO: And what about debt from strangers who showed you kindness in ways you can never pay back?

My mom in 2014 was traveling from the Philippines here to California. She ended up. She ended up collapsing while she was on a layover in Seoul and she was hospitalized for two and a half months, and then through all these different complications, she just was not able to recover and be released for travel.

She ended up passing away there and she had medical insurance that was not accepted by the hospital. So my dad had to pay a couple hundred thousand in hospital bills and it still wasn't enough to release her. So I ended up starting a Go Fund Me campaign raised about 60 thousand within a couple of weeks. And I am forever grateful. I mean, in just indebted.

Right, indebted to those people who who showed me how much they cared about her being able to come home. And we brought home her remains in time for Mother's Day as a result of all these people. Many were strangers. Many were her former students in the Philippines. A lot of them were our family, but also people who who knew of her through different relationships, different instances or interactions. And I feel indebted to every single person who contributed to that, and it humbles me every time I think about her story and I think about that time in my family's life that I mean, it was just a time of despair and I mean, great sadness and grief, obviously.

And had it not been for these people, I don't think we would have been able to come out of that as a family and feel restored and whole.  

OUTRO BEGINS

There are many sides to debt.

This series intends to take you on a journey through defining and redefining debt through stories of Filipinos in the diaspora.

Upcoming stories from guests like rapper Ruby Ibarra are just a sampling of the journeys you’ll hear along the way.

That’s all for this episode, thank you for listening.

To find out more about the series and upcoming episodes and resources, visit Blooddebts.com

Follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram.

Blood Debts is produced and hosted by me Leezel Tanglao.

This series is a legacy project of the Filipino Young Leaders Program.

Shoutout to FYLPRO Batch 8.

This series is dedicated to all those who struggle to talk about uncomfortable issues and for all those who ever felt overlooked.

I see you.

I hear you.

OUTRO ENDS