Transcript

VOX POP BEGINS

I find in the Filipino and maybe Filipino American community actions that are giving sometimes can be considered debt, that you have an obligation to pay back.

It’s something more valuable, like gratitude or sometimes even loyalty.

I guess debt is something as huge as taking on a mortgage for a house or something as little as, hey, I don't have cash on me. Can you cover this ten dollar meal and I'll Venmo you later.

Debt is like an imbalance of sorts. You know owe something, whether implicitly or explicitly, there's an expectation for that to be repaid or to be returned.

VOX POP ENDS

INTRODUCTION BEGINS

In Blood Debts, we tell the tories of choices and sacrifices to pay back what is owed and pay forward something of value.

I’m your host, Leezel Tanglao.

On this podcast, we talk about one of the few through lines in people’s lives - debt.

You’ll hear stories from the Filipino diaspora around how debt has impacted all aspects of life from those in the medical field, public service sector to technology to creative arts.

As a journalist, I’ve spent more than a decade reporting on the financial aspects of debt in diverse communities.

But many carry debts beyond money.

INTRODUCTION ENDS

FREDERICK DOCDOCIL: When people bring up debt, majority of the time, it’s finance, money.

But really, if you take a step back, it's something whether it's a favor or it's monetary or even, you know, expectation wise.

LEEZEL TANGLAO: In this episode, we take a look at debt for the financial point of view and the lack of financial literacy in the Filipino community.

My name is Fred Docdocil, I am a community leader representing Mabuhay Credit Union and business development coordinator.

Finance isn't something that is talked about in our community. I’ve been part of the Chamber of Commerce for the last decade and pretty much the extent of financial education controls that that Filipino kids get from their parents:

Go to school, study hard. Get a good job. That's it.

There's no connecting the dots.

Whereas other, you know, other minority groups out there, whether it's the Koreans, Chinese and Japanese, you know, let's build up a business.

Filipinos, I think, are trained to be good employees, which I mean, you know, on on its core.

There's nothing wrong with that. But we're not really trained to be entrepreneurs, not to say that there's no business owners.

I mean, you know, there's obviously a good chunk of a population that's that falls under that umbrella.

But as a generalization, we're not really taught about money.

And, you know, compounded with the fact that when first generation Filipinos come here, they don't really have that extensive experience in the motherland to begin with.

You can't teach what you don't know. Right?

So that gets compounded. And what makes it even worse?

This is already the third level to being bad is the Filipinos. Proclivity, I think, is a good word and not just to “Keep up with the Joneses.”

Beat the Joneses, right?

People literally go into debt to get married. And, you know, unfortunately, there are instances where they're still paying for the wedding long after the marriage is over. So that's I think that's a perfect example of the mix between the concept of debt, both financially and from the expectations set aside by our culture.

 LEEZEL TANGLAO: So what happens when the lack of financial care creeps into more toxic areas of debt or them?

Debt, a mortgage is definitely a good debt. I mean, you know, and then the right context, you know, it's that involves ownership and involves stability and it gives you leverage. But also that also could be negative in the sense that it could be destructive if, you know, as somebody whose finances are in such disarray that, you know, even when they do apply for and are approved for a loan, they're using that money that they loaned to pay off another loan.

And basically, you're just shuffling between pockets, you know?

So that's certainly a negative in that sense. And the same thing happens in the family dynamic where in the positive side, definitely. Oh, is that when child is raised — as raised by their parents, certainly expectation that they returned the favor.

But if if it's wielded incorrectly, there's a sense of resentment.

When that happens, because then, you know, OK, ‘why are you threatening me or why are you trying to guilt trip me into repaying whatever debt you feel I owe you?’”

There's definitely friction there between, you know, in that example, the parent and the child.

And I actually have an example of this from my family was that, you know, the parent wanted to steer their son to become a doctor, you know, basically get into the medical field.

He didn't want to. And at the end of the day, he actually could have been a good doctor. I mean, he's very smart.

My uncle, he wanted to be a journalist to begin with. But the parents, you know, my grandparents didn't want him to. And in his rebellion, he'd never even completed college. So that's obviously a very unfortunate side effect of that.

 But again another layer that compounds the situation, too, is the fact that in our culture, there's the expectation that the elders are always right.

It gets used to hold over somebody else, essentially to give them until repaying back.

And when that happens, whether it's culturally or, you know, just in certain families, it really does change the dynamic.

LEEZEL TANGLAO: In the next couple of episodes, we'll dove deeper into the origins of utang na loob and how that relates to blood debts.

FREDERICK DOCDOCIL: The Filipino term has up until very recently, I felt there was no direct translation of it, but blood debts basically comes very close to, you know, to being that translation. That obviously, again, as I mentioned earlier, it's an imbalance. But when you're talking about blood, a lot of times it's used as an analogy for family. Right. But also, at the same time, too, there's the same blood, sweat and tears. It's out of your own labor.

So there's different levels to it. But at its very core, blood, it's I mean, there's also a tinge of sadness to it, too. Right. When there's bloodshed, it's not that the the rosiest of pictures.

OUTRO BEGINS

There are many sides to debt.

This series intends to take you on a journey through defining and redefining debt through stories of Filipinos in the diaspora.

Upcoming stories from guests like Major General Antonio Taguba and rapper Ruby Ibarra are just a sampling of the journeys you’ll hear along the way.

That’s all for this episode, thank you for listening.

To find out more about the series and upcoming episodes and resources, visit Blooddebt.com

Follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram.

Blood Debts is produced and hosted by me Leezel Tanglao.

This series is a legacy project of the Filipino Young Leaders Program.

Shoutout to FYLPRO Batch 8.

This series is dedicated to all those who struggle to talk about uncomfortable issues and for all those who ever felt overlooked.

I see you.

I hear you.

OUTRO ENDS